By Talal Radi
Walid: What’s up man, weenak?
Fares: Kount fi school elyoum.
Walid: Ana wel jama3a rayhin 3al coffee shop.
Fares: Ok habibi, see you there.
Walid and Fares are imaginary characters that I made up, but the way the conversation went on is very much real. What you just read could have easily been a regular conversation between two friends in...no, not New York...not Washington, but Amman or Beirut.
That, my friends, is the new hip language of the elites, the ”Western-educated bunch„; Arabizi. It’s a slang term for Arabic and Inglizi. Believe it or not, it is widely spoken in Middle-Eastern countries and the Gulf region among the youth, especially among the Western-educated ones. Everyone else is following the suit to keep up with the trend, but to what extent. It is the new way for the haves to distance themselves from the have-nots.
So, is Arabizi hurting the Arabic language? Is it hurting our heritage? Is it maybe hurting even the way we think?
Some claim they can express their feelings easily when speaking English, especially, when it comes to talking about sex and taboo topics in our society in general. I would argue that Oum Kalthoum and now Kazem Essaher made a great deal of fortune expressing themselves in Arabic. Great poets, scientists, philosophers, etc. left behind great works in Arabic that is being studied in prestigious universities around the world. So, this argument of not being able to express oneself in Arabic is not valid. It is simply an image thing, it’s cool nowadays to speak foreign languages but not your native.
The inability of people to express themselves resides in the ignorance of the language, not the fact that it sounds better in this language or that language.
One should not confuse being bilingual with Arabizi. Because, the speaker of Arabizi has a handle on neither English nor Arabic, and therefore, the person is torn between the two. That creates an imbalance in the thought process.
Same thing is happening in Morocco. The majority of Moroccans can’t speak Arabic, the French is kind of broken, and in the process we are losing part of our identity due to all this. In our constituation, Arabic is the official language of the nation, but one can hardly tell, because, the facts on the ground prove otherwise. Everywhere you go, whether it be private or public, French is the language in Morocco. I thought, we got rid of the colonizer some 50 years ago. Now, we are allowing them back to colonize our tongues.
Recently, Mr. Bush has announced a nationwide program to teach all Americans Arabic in schools among other languages. But the reason behind it is not to bring cultures together, or to initiate dialogue between the two sides; it is purely for intelligence purposes. The media in USA is undermining Arabic as well. They slurred most words, twisted their meanings and gave them a bad connotation: Jihad and Caliphate—khilafa.
Our language is under assault, our identity is being transformed in the name of globalization. You must take action to repel all forces trying to bring our culture down, obliterate our history. Save Arabic, it is after all, the language of the Quran.
I would like to challenge every Wafiner and all the Moroccans in the US to read at least two Arabic books a year.
|le prolitarien : Sir, why does it bother you if someone is speaking other language other then the arabic language? Do you believe in the freedom to choose? Do you know that some thinkers link our ignorence to the lack of our unabilities to translate books? Are you suggesting that the solutions to our "Moroccan" present problems are to return to our Arabic language for a better future?|
Sir, your article serves absolutly no purpose other then to promote more exclusion and to widen more the arabic world isolation. Furthermore, most of us are well balanced and properly raised, so we dont need you to remind us when and how we should read our "book".
Please STOP JUDGING!!!
|siwana : I just have a little comment about the "broken French" part in your article. Allow me to say that educated moroccans who chose to incorporate French in their daily conversations, by no means have Broken french. There is one thing you need to keep in mind. Moroccans who chose to speak french, do it not to show off. In most cases they do it because most of their education was done in french and therefore it is easy for them to express themselves in that language. And I also believe that sometimes it is hard to say certain things in arabic. For instance, moroccan dialect is not very romantic and I'm sure a lot of people will agree with me on that. It is actually a pretty rough dialect. For instance, if I wanted to say to my husband that I love him, I will do it either in French or English. Because saying it in Moroccan Arabic, will sound just totally ridiculous.|
|filsdublad : le prolitarien: |
Take it easy maan!! what's up with you being all up in the guy's grill?
I do take issue with the simplification of your argument and its root causes. I need to collect my thoughts then I’ll comment.
Definitely, this is a good subject or question to raise in my opinion.
|dc : Thank you Talal for this very important subject |
For now, I would like to start by addressing some issues raised by two commenters.
Le prolitarien: lower your shields dude, this ain’t what you think it is.
Your interpretation of the text presented here is only off by couple light years. Assuming you can find your way back to earth in time, I suggest you to try to post another comment with something little less than a light year away from the subject matter.
Couple of comments:
1) Arabic and Moroccan dialect are two separate things. You need to be specific.
In case you didn’t know, Arabic EMBODIES what beauty is – Quran is one evidence of that. If you don’t know that yet, then you have no idea what you are missing. School can be a lot of help to you.
2) You mentioned also that you find Moroccan dialectic too rough to be an appropriate “language” of love.
Sister, suffice to say that if you have not learned how to speak with love using our beloved language and dialect, then you and I should meet?
How many ways can one expresses his/her love for another?
I am curious to know if you are aware of what is called al-zajal?
Do you think “Hbibi” is rough??????????
|caltech1119 : Dear Mr. Talal, |
I think you've got it all wrong. First off, you are enjoying the benefits of being here in the U.S., and yet you're so full of resentment. I've read at least one other dialogue you posted, and I don't think you'll be satisfied until you draw blood. I feel sorry for you - you're so angry. I doubt there are any Arabs in the U.S. who want to lose touch with Arabic, which as you say, is the language of the Quran. Now, I admit the American media has done a hatchet job on American perceptions of Arabs. For that reason, I watch other non American news stations whenever possible. But I'm limited by my ignorance of Arabic. You speak of Bush's recent announcement - his goals to teach Arabic in public schools. You dismiss it as an effort for intelligence purposes only. I ask you - how can I possibly understand the Arabic view if I can't speak Arabic? I would also like to add that Osama bin Laden has done a pretty good job of twisting the meaning of Certain Arabic words to serve his own purposes. When he says "jihad" he means in the most blodthirsty sense, not in the way that it actually read in the Quran. Americans are not distorting the meaning of the word here; it's the doing of an Arab. But how can Americans discern the actual meaning unless they can speak Arabic? Whether you agree with what Bush is doing or not (and I happen to be adamently against Bush), how can we cleanse ourselves of our ignorance if we don't learn Arabic? I thinks it's cool to speak any foreign language, including Arabic. I also want to point out that many Arabs who come here work in some capacity for the U.S. government. Is everything the U.S does inherently wrong, or could it be we're finding our way, and we are seeking to understand? Nobody is asking you to renounce who you are - in name, creed, or culture. It saddens me to read what you've wrote - that you are so jaded. I'm also tired of hearing about the evils of globalization. Do you have a cell phone? Do you use the Internet? If so, you're an active participant in globalization...like it or not. You can't have it both ways. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Le Proletarian - I agree with you, but you're pretty rough. Please, while I learn Arabic, you learn English. Sign things using the correct English spelling "Sincerely." And Fildublad, please don't criticize Le Proletarian for expressing his views. People have a right to express their opinions - on this forum and in the U.S. It's this free speech that is one of the most wonderful things about the U.S., and a reason why I'm proud to be American. When my relatives came here, they spoke Polish. Our name was changed at Ellis Island - we had no choice in the matter. Now I long to know of my Polish heritage. It is up to you to keep your heritage, your creed, and your customs alive. But you can't play it both ways. In doing so, you are merely a hypocrite. And I say, you're resitant to the normal ebb and flow of change. You're a resister - and you won't get far when it comes to worldwide peace and understanding. So you don't like defense and education - don't work in those fields. But in the end, it could be your saving grace. Respectfullly, and wishing you every good thing--Caltech girl!
firstname.lastname@example.org "Seek first to understand before you judge!"
P.S. I would love to know your language, customs, and understand just who you are. I am happy you are here! It adds more colors and beauty to the kaleidescope we call America.
|me_rosy : Dear r-Tatal, Why don't you go back home and lecture your judgmental speach that has no lucid and coherent foundations whatsoever. After all, if you are so fanatic about arabic because of your prejudice, why don't you write this posting in Arabic? instead, ah! let me answer this for you, because you can express your confusing thoughts in English. We heard you. Are you promoting a Holy war against other languages, you might as well include their native speakers???!!! I'd suggest you promote integrity, cultural diversity, and recognition and be positive.|
You have touched many subjects that you have offended several Wafiners for no reason, just because you are so opinionated and you want them to see things in your way. That's what got us where we are now! "Think like me or you don't exist." Are you one of them? Please don't bring Islam into this by mentioning Quran. Arabic is the language of the Quran, so what???!!! that does not make you enforce Arabic on every human on earth, Have you thought of millions of Muslims all over the world- Indonesia, Thailand, Sri Lanka, Uzbikistan, Bosnia, etc... who don't speak Arabic? what are you going to tell them? " Why are you speaking your mother tongue?" Quran has nothing to do with your graceless and boorish statement. About Morocco and Arabic as the official language, let 's not go there!
You got some serious problems. Your last article, you made a big deal of People who have been asked politely for a nickname, and you made sound like you are forced to come up with a nickname, which you perceived it as your roots are decaying and you called these people “Yo Dummy.”
People like you have no place here...
“7uta wa7da, kat-khanniz shwari”
|lola33 : Mr. Talal, You have a point,|
I, like all educated Moroccans am very fluent in French. I studied and lived in France for almost 10 years. However at least when I go back home I do my best not to incorporate French in my Moroccan dialect. I know very well educated Moroccans who speak a clean Moroccan dialect. However I do understand that some brains can not take more than one language and learning a second language make them lose their own. I have no doubt about the deep cause of the Moroccan attitude toward their own dialect: a complex left by the French, a feeling of inferiority. Now that the French are gone, it became a sign of education of sophistication and a high social status. Kids of middle to high class in Morocco do not speak Arabic, they first learn French.
I get irritated when I meet some Moroccans in Morocco (Zmagria of France) who not only do not speak a word in Arabic but look at you like stupid when you speak their own language (Arabic).
For Mrs. Siwana, if you find that saying I love you in your own language is ridiculous it is because you have never heard it before. If you grew up hearing your mom saying I love you to your father, it would not sound ridiculous at all. The only place most Moroccans grew up hearing that word is on TV either in Egyptian or in French! So it is not a language problem, it is a cultural problem.
And trust me there are ways to say I love you in Moroccan that are sexier than said in French or English or even in Egyptian.
|does : Sometimes people from the third world country think that speaking a language fluently is sufficient to get them some status in life. It is sad to say that most Moroccans in general are not that educated to even master their own language, Let alone others. Moroccans that immigrated, to succeed in life they learned English or French to integrate in the societies that they live in. And it's only then, that they managed to find jobs and move up in their status. |
So why not learn Arabic? you only hurting your siblings , your tribe and your culture. There are more jobs for people who speak fluent Arabic than French.
How many French-Moroccan musicians do you know? how many French-Moroccan actors do you know? how many French-Moroccan lawyers and judges do you know? you get my point? that if you're smart.
|kwoolr : Personally, I love North African arabic much better than mid east arabic. I also think french is highly overrated. I think there is nothing sexier than ya oumri, ya galbi. Algerian darja and Moroccan arabic are wonderful and entrancing and I will take north african arabic sentence with its spice and intrigue over a " halwa halwa halwa" bunch of musri or fillistin embellishment. I think the fault lies in somehow other arabs making north africans think that their way of speaking is less than or the influence of french speakers and their snobbery. French isn't better than North African dialects and if you don't think North Africans can sound romantic speaking in their own language, you need to have your head examined. It all boils down to personal choice. You make a choice to speak eloquently or not and slaughtering any language is a personal decision. If you don't know how to express yourself, listen to books on tape and improve your vocabulary.|
I myself have been in Algeria and have met Moroccans and Algerians all over the world. I am not impressed by self hating North Africans. I am the mother of a Moroccan. I want her to speak MOROCCAN ARABIC. Not egyptian. Not syrian. MOROCCAN dialect. There is something so beautiful about the deep sounds of a moroccan conversation. The use of words. The sayings. The proverbs. The history that it reveals. French merely runs over others. Moroccan arabic embraced other languages. That's why I love it so. I want to hear it anytime I can. But if you don't understand the beauty and specialness of a moroccan conversation, don't run the language down. It is unique and special and as far as I am concerned, something much more wonderful that standard arabic. Give me North Africans dialects any day of the week
|rickusa : First, we Moroccans don’t take notes from the Middle-Eastern countries and the Gulf region especially when it comes to dialect, being cool, fashion, etc… Two Moroccan males don’t call each other Habibi; they address each other differently such as Shrif, Bro, Fkih, Aazwa in Marrakech, Aasheer, Dude, Sehibi, Al ustad, etc… |
We have so many Dialects and languages in Morocco including Moroccanzi, frenchizi that this arabizi is no treat at all.
If you go to Marrakech, Tangier, Casa, you will find people speak at least four languages and two dialects…
In addition, not because you speak English, French, and Arabic, you will understand Shakespeare, Sartre, and Jabran. You need to master the language to understand such scriptures especially the Koran.
Therefore, I think the issue here is reading and understanding not speaking. You can speak any language/dialect you are comfortable with as long as you will be understood.
|kwoolr : I love darja and I think it is a heck of alot more interesting than palestinian dialect. I always laugh at middle easterners when they give me a lecture on how algerians and moroccans don't speak arabic. Like they are so damn interesting. I will take darja anyday, spicey and lively and interesting.|
|moustaphy : “The majority of Moroccans can’t speak Arabic,..”. That is a fact, because Moroccans speak Moroccan Arabic or Berber. Darija is a colorful mix of Arabic, Berber, French and Spanish. The language of the Koran is not spoken in the living room or in the street. If you think about it, Arabic (Fus-ha) is really taught as a second language in Morocco.|
The inclusion of foreign words in any language is very common and is part of its evolution. Even the Koran contains words that were not purely Arabic at the time of revelation.
Using Darija or any language to express one’s feeling toward one's loved one is very much suppressed within Moroccan family. You would rarely see a Moroccan man expressing his love to his wife in front of their children. Because expressing one’s affection is seen as shameful or maybe “ridiculous”.
It is interesting to consider the word “hbibi”. It means my love and it also means my uncle. The former meaning is mainly used in closed doors and in one on one situation while the latter is widely and openly used.
|le prolitarien : Me_ROSY:|
Thank you, you spoke exactly what is in my heart and in my brain.
If you can follow my comments -at wafin train.I proudly confessed that i can't spell, but i will stop learning the day i die.
|lola33 : I just wanted to add that although I agree with the first part of Talal’s article I disagree with the 2 last paragraphs.|
I think it is good to teach Arabic in American schools, this will not only promote our language but also can lead to translations of English books to Arabic. Arabs are not doing much in that field so let’s wait for Arabic –speaking Americans to help us with that!
As for globalization, being from a third world country we desperately need globalization. We are the ones who benefit from it. Because of globalization in the 3d world, people now dream of democracy, freedom of speech, as mentioned before, know internet etc...etc…The world is changing and we have to follow. I don’t know what it is in our identity that we would lose because of globalization: “attakhalluf”, repression, taboos, corruption, lack of education and information about vital things.
As for Mr. Bush, when we, Arabs, criticize him, we should always not forget the precious gift he is giving us: the freedom to criticize publically the leader of a nation.
|filsdublad : I don't know caltech1119, I think you are the one criticizing me for expressing my opinion on what Le Politarien said.|
It is very good to see clashing opinions on this subject. I wonder why the clashes are intense at times.
|r-talal : Wow, quite hostile up in here.|
I'll be back with a response.
|siwana : Dear dc,|
The part about going back to school will probably be more useful to you since you really can't read:)
What I meant by Moroccan arabic, is dareeja. So don't bring out the Quran please in this conversation, it has nothing to do with it.
And the Hbibi part, try "hbibi kanabghik ou kanhabbak" Yuk.
no hard feelings, I'm always open to criticism.
|caltech1119 : Filsdublad, This is what I ACTUALLY said in response to your telling L.P. not to "get all up in Talal's grill." You've done this before on other forums! You didn't express an opinion on what Talal said, mind you. Let's get things straight; this is what I said:|
And Filsdublad, please don't criticize Le Proletarian for expressing his views. People have a right to express their opinions - on this forum and in the U.S. It's this free speech that is one of the most wonderful things about the U.S., and a reason why I'm proud to be American.
So, there's no irony in my response here. whatsoever. I just asserted everyone's right to express their opinion. Talal's dialogue is provocative, so he can expect a range of opinions.
PS And you do know me.
|caltech1119 : Incidentally, academics recognize dialects from Morocco, Algeria, Tunisian, and Mauritania as separate but related dialects. |
|arasti : Besides the language issue that is being discussed here,it's quite interesting to see how emotional people get on this thread and attacking each other.both issues have one thing in common-Communication skills.|
people use their linguistic repertoire to communicate efficiently and assertively or so they try.Therefore,it's not a surprise to see a Moroccan who speak A "rough darija" with is illiterate parent ,and swith his repertoire as soon as he meets his High school sweetheart to talk in french about his feelings with her/him.Once he goes back to his neighborhood he would use a different repertoire to discuss soccer with his peers and so on.Unlike Americans,Moroccans grew up being exposed to French,Spanish,And English convinced that they are languages of more civilized and sophisiticated societies.
To Speak French in Morocco is to communicate two messages.First,the verbal message that you want to convey to the other party.The second one is an implicit one in which you try to communicate your social status,education,and attitude.
It's sad that some think Darija dialect sounds rediculous in expressing feelings but I believe it's more a cultural issues than a linguistic difficiency in Darija.
|caltech1119 : Dear Filsdublad - I suggest you take a deep breath - maybe do some meditating. You've put far to much energy into what I've said, and frankly, it's kind weird. What I've said is not personal, but I have to insist, everything I've said in my comments is true, whether you agree or not. Why don't you go outside and do some situps or something? It will release the tension. And yes, I could give you an example, but it would only fuel your anger.|
|le prolitarien : Sir:|
I dont know why are you wasting your time worrying about the middle eastern men life style. To me, they do not existe periode. Why? among other things, all they thing about us is we are bunch of Jews and French. Therefore, we are less ARABS than them.
Sir, let me grant you another point please. I can go to any books store in my state "Illinois", buy the Koran, and read it, almost everywhere, openly without fears whatsoever.Now, would a person from the Christian faith be able to read his/her bible openly in Saudia Arabia without harassment? i doubt it. So my friend, we need to lead by example.
thank you for everything.
God bless the world.
|me_rosy : Dear dc, what does dc mean? ….oh! You are so proud to carry the dc nickname, why don’t you change it to Mecca or let me see, how about Quds. Aren’t they holy places or dc is your holy place; you might as well pray toward dc.|
You are good at criticizing others, the way called “Commentators” like Siwana and le protiltarien, but we have not seen you on Tatal’s posting. Most of your discussions are demeaning wafiners who embrace integration, freedom, choice, quality of life, and co-existence. Who are you competing with? Your ego! Torn between here and there, you can not have both, that’s for sure, but you can coexist. You see the core issue is people like you can not depart from a bitter past or make of themselves what they choose to be, not what you were brought up to be …. This has absolutely nothing to do with preserving your culture, religion, custom on the expensive others’ freedom.
A scholar like should know better! We need Mrs. Kesseler here so that she can teach you some of her wise lessons…
|caltech1119 : le proletarian - as you can see I can't spell either. Keep posting - you always have something creative and interesting to say.|
|filsdublad : Dear Caltech1119:|
I don't know you for sure. You don't know me now neither, do you?
All I was saying to LP is that I thought he was overly aggressive. If he or someone else think he was not, that's their opinion and that's quite fine with me. What I did not get is my being accused of attempting to restrict his expressing of his opinions. I was simply stating my take on his comment.
Your starting to preach about how this is America and people have the right to freedom of speech is out of place. I don't ever recall reading any comment by anyone attempting to restrict anyone from freely expressing their opinions on this forum.
You said I have done so in my previous comments, I challenge you to dig up a case where I have done so.
|ouzidanr : Talal, thank you very much for bringing up this subject. I think you need to distinguish the difference between Arabic the official language of Morocco and the Moroccan Dialect. Our dialect is a mix of Arabic, French, Spanish and Portuguese. It depends on what region of Morocco the person is from. Don’t forget that our education system had change few time from Arabic to French and vise versa. I strongly believe that our dialect is a wonderful language and has its uniqueness; you need to be a true Moroccan to understand the meaning between the lines. We are very special people; we have our own dialect that no other Arab people understand except Algerians and Tunisians, on the other hand, we understand the middle easterners, because we learn Arabic in school. Some think that our dialect is rough because sometimes we seem like if we are arguing, but I will call it passion. Telling your love ones that you love them romantically, is very easy, just use some of the following words, La7biba, Lakbida, la9layab . . . . Plus action speaks louder than words and that’s what we are good at. We leave the talk to the others “al kalb alitayanba7 matay3adsh” So therefore we don’t like to bark but we do bite.|
We should not forgot the Berber or “Amazigh” language.
Cheers to everyone.
|caltech1119 : Fildublad - you missed my point completely... I was just pointing out (as a reminder to everyone) one of the wonderful things about the U.S. - the fact that we can have a forum like this and agree to disagree - everyone on this forum benefits from this unalienable right. Did I say that someone else said otherwise? I think not.|
Your starting to preach about how this is America and people have the right to freedom of speech is out of place. I don't ever recall reading any comment by anyone attempting to restrict anyone from freely expressing their opinions on this forum.
|dc : Mr. Talal,|
Your topic interest me great deal and will come back to it soon. My applogies for shifting focus.
Though buried in so much junk, your comment about the correctness of the word “commenter” is worth a little attention. So here it is:
First, I don’t claim mastery of the English language and never will – keep in mind that the average (even those with minimum education) Moroccan speak more than one language, in my case more a lot more than that.
Now, without a good dictionary handy, here is an off the cuff remark on the issue of concern.
- The word commentator is typically associated with commentary (e.g., comments) delivered verbally.
- Commenter is a good word and it is used correctly – you would know that, right away, if you had my kind of background. Further, if you spell check the word, most likely, you will get an error, courtesy of Mr. Bill.
Another general comment:
There is a saying in our beautiful and divine language, Arabic, that says: Kollo Inaa-In Yarshaho Bimaa Fiih. Wa-fham Yal-faham.
Hint: Step out of yourself for a moment, and look at the output (your two comments) and see what you can infer as far as the STATE of the source.
If this isn’t helpful enough, let me know and I will be delighted to assist you in understanding the very obvious.
Thank you for your attention.
|abdelillah : Dear dc,|
I appreciate your level of intellect and for that, I would like to warn you not to follow or pay attention to people like Me_rosy. These types of people always hold grudges and keep coming back under a different name in order to hide their true face. Me_rosy is another name for the hypnotist (fham yal fahem!). Please don’t waist your time and give them the pleasure of recognition!!
Hmidou Abdelillah zaytouni would hammo el hmaq li kaiskoun fe lhawma del Kharoub
|filsdublad : caltech1119 |
i swear, you made me laugh sooo hard, thanks anyway.
|delacroixr : Dear Talal,|
As a Moroccan I do not pretend to be knowledgeable in arabic. That has never been my goal. I love Darija and I am teaching my kid to speak it. Arabic comes second in line.
I would like to draw your attention to two aspects that you have missed in your essay:
1. Languages evolve. I will not be surprised to see arabic language years and years down the road becoming as a language purely for religious purposes. That was the fate, for example, of latin and sanskrit languages.
2. Arabizi and/or spanglish (spanish/english) might evolve to form separate languages enriched by mother languages. The case of catalan (official language in Catalunya) is a perfect mixture of french and spanish.
Lets imagine: Longtime ago, Sancho, a writer wrote an essay calling people in Catalunya to speak more "superior" languages: french or castellano (spanish) but people continue to speak catalan- the official language of Catalunya.
Take home message: Languages are made and developed by people not by academicians. let it be!
|le prolitarien : Dear Ms Me_Rosy:|
I applaud your shock and awe strategy. It worked. Did you hear him saying: "i cant comment, my thoughts are burried under so much junk". "I didn't claim to master English"....
Now, let me describe the rest of his feelings for him: He is shocked. He is confused. He is defeated. He is dizzy. He cant breathe. his head hurt. he is semi comatose. He is recovering.....
Listen. You. and you know who you are, come out from hidding, and "compose" and announce where your stand on this article.
thanks to all wifiners for everything
|abeacc : Ouch!!! Quoting a famous line: "Can't we just get along?" Having different views is a good thing guys and girls. Debating is really an art form! It encourages discussion and exposes people from different backgrounds to new perspectives. After reading most of your comments, it seems that the discussion veered from Arabizi to attacking one another. The essence of the article was right on the money!! Whether it is French, Arabic (classical and Moroccan dialect) or English, it makes sense to master it and appreciate its uniqueness (instead of mixing 2 or more in the same sentence). The article, however, missed its target when it switched from discussing a legitimate language “imbalance” to referring to the social aspects of language on our identity as Moroccans. Khouia Talal, if people speak Martian, they can still be proud Moroccans! What matters are your values, your heritage and your traditions. Finally, if you are indeed a religious person, using the Arabic language to pray, is not only required but it also brings you peace of mind.|
Sincerely, Marrakchi in Boston.
|chikrea : Facetiously speaking, the only thing that offended me in this article was putting Oum Kalsoum in the same sentence as Kazem al Saher! |
That is sacrilegious in my music book.
|r-talal : It's a shame that this forum has turned into a name calling, account settling match. Most of the contributers left the subject to criticize each other. It shows how divisive this Arabic issue is and how uneasy certain people felt at the mere mention of Arabic. They jumped to the defense of their masters languages in detriment our beloved language. One went even further to suggest Arabic will have the same fate as Latin to become a language for religion. What a brilliant prediction that was. The one that got me worried the most is the suggestion that we are ignorant because we don't translate enough books into Arabic. Thanks for the insight. where have all the geniuses like yourself when we needed them?|
Anyway, I am dissapointed that most of you did not tackle this topic in a responsible fashion, no sane arguments were put forward to refute my claims.
I ruffled a lot of feathers and I liked the controversy.
Looking forward to wrting another controversial topic as always.
Oh by the way, President Bush also recommended teaching Farsi( Iran) and Chinese: both not so friendly countries with the US. He left North Korean out though, someone should have called him on that one.
|kahen150 : I m an Amazigh!! I speak tamazight!! I don t identify my self in ur polemics!!! As an amzigh moroccan!!my language est rich to express all feeeling and .... even if I, unfortunnalyy, never learned it at school!! first of all, if u want to talk as moroccona, first define ur self, who r u!!! if u r from aldjazira!! u should go there!! if u r Imazighen!! so talk as ur ancestors!! enouph of this bull stuff!!!|
|sword : The mother language has a significant impact on our personhood. We learn to associate objects and things around us with words that acquaint us with the world outside ourselves; so much so that the very words become the reality which engages us in communication, or action, or both. We conceive certain words as pleasant or unpleasant when they describe a thing that is pleasant or unpleasant. Our ears go further in parsing each word into its minute syllables and letters. We become accustomed to hear our alphabet in increments of sounds and expect them to affect our senses accordingly. The profane in our mother language is laden with harsh consonants such as the sound [kha] and [sha]. The sacred word, on the other hand, is less pronounced and almost celestial. It is balanced with consonants and vowel sound. When our ears, for instance, receive the tonality of the word [na sim] our psyche response is immediate and direct. We feel a window opened in our depth. We reach for a cleaner breath; we even perhaps imagine sensual aromas of jasmine and fragrant rose petals traveling with our spirit. In short, we are much more connected with the words of our mother language and we experience these words with a greater sense of reality. When we speak a foreign language, however, we skip the dimension of the word that animates our imagination the most and cling to the bear communication bone. In fact, I may learn to write and speak a foreign language so fluently but I can never experience it as the native would. An expression of love expressed in a foreign tong is certainly exotic, but it is far more superficial than an expression of love expressed in our mother language. Words of love and affection we get from our mothers would scar our beings more than any other words. Having said that, I believe that speaking other languages or any variety thereof is a good thing; at minimum we can express ideas without feeling them as intensely so as to understand others and make the other understand us. Mr. Talal’s article [if I understand it correctly] does not criticize a language per se; but it goes to mannerism and snobbism of people genre. Mr. Talal’s idea is well taken, but I am asking Mr. Talal to consider how fortunate it is for him to be able to say for example “where is the bathroom?” in Japanese if he lands in Tokyo airport with a Moroccan diarrhea.|
|dc : Power outage perhaps? We can blame lightning if you wish. |
If someone asks for a description of our “pool of shared meaning”, I am afraid, I won’t have much to say, except to call what it is: DRY W’FIH Payassa(S).
Guess what is need here, prior to all?
|mokae24 : Sword|
That was a brilliant comment, I couldn't have said it better
|kasbat : This article was very interesting. |
As an American who learned Arabic in my early teens..in Morocco, I can relate to alot of what you mentioned.
Traveling in the Arabic speaking Muslim world Im often let down when I speak Arabic to folks and they insist on trying to speak English.
Perhaps a command of all languages one is interested in is the best. Although I have to say:
Arabic Rocks! and Derega is cool to.
|outlandish21 : salamoalukom|
am a bro from el moro homeland an wanna just say that no matter wht s gonna happen or wht has already happened to this ummah (nation) of islam ..arabic s gonna be always the pretty an the over good lookin language that had chaised the hearts of more than 1.5 billions meslims arround the world an wanna say moreover just look at this language an how it's somehow pretty hard to deeply get it ...an at the same time try to figure out why all those 1.5 billion meslim can get to spell the words of quran masha allah knowin thier back origines of the classic arabic language ...so cant u feel that s a pretty powerful hand masha allah s behin all that?..that s the mercy of allah an ..plz for everybody over here stop plz demenizin an miss treatin this language of beautiful pple of heaven like our lovely prophet has said...
am not from america or northern america am just a given an an ordinary el moro citozen livin over here in el moro homeland an have been somehow chooked of some commenets arround here an wanted to xpres my point of view..by the way am 21 ys old an am a business student over here in agadir .
my email s :email@example.com
peace off from houara.
|PeaceMan : Hello All,|
First of all I would like to congratulate Mr Talal for his article about Arabizi, it has analyzed some facts of the Arab people in General and the Arab youth in particular. Let’s make no mistake things are changing and I have nothing against the change, but as long as it is a positive and constructive transformation. Unfortunately, the metamorphose Mr Talal is talking about in my opinion is a negative one, because it is a result of the perpetual and continuous denigration of Arabs/Berbers/Muslims by the West; Arabizi is the fruit of humiliation inflicted by the aforementioned group militarily and culturally, where one likes to hide his/her identity and origin, to prove what I am saying lets just watch any Hollywood movie with Muslims in it or watch the prime time news in US or EU when they mention Arabs and/or Muslims.
To resume all this, the Arabs are going through a severe self-identity crisis that was imposed on them by design. Having said that, I always ask a question for ourselves as Arabs/Muslim/Berbers (“THEM” according to west); what has happened to our culture, our values and our civilization, are we all bastard barbarians coming from no where and what will be our future and the future of our kids?
To Le prolitarien, me_rosy and caltech1119… “Great minds discuss ideas, mediocre ones discuss people!” we are here to discuss a subject not attacking each other.
To lola33, your praise to Bush is out of subject; US (not Bush) might have given you a green card, but Bush and US has helped decimate millions of Muslim lives for no apparent reason except personal greed and oil grab.
To kahen150 How do you know that one of your forefathers is not from Al jazera? My point is who cares!
With all due respect to all non-Arabic speaking wafiners, if you have no contribution to the subject in question please refrain from bragging about US and freedom of expression, that is not the subject at this Forum; BTW “Your freedom ends where mine begin!” Freedom not insults, Freedom not anarchy and Responsibility to respect other should also be embedded with your Freedom.
Peace and sunshine on All,
|reallylovely : Mr. Talal,|
I believe you've made a good point.
The thing however is: Can we, should we decide to, carry a conversation in one language without mixing it with another?
If the answer is yes, we're saved. And yes, some of us are!
French, English and other languages are beautiful, but as you pointed it out so well, Arabic is such a rich language and it is always a good thing to immerse oneself in the knowledge of languages. Why not start by keeping up with our Arabic?
|mounalar : Nice article...|
Besides some Moroccans who prefer to speak French in Morocco now, Moroccan raised abroad do not pay attention to Darija... 7ashouma!
Teach your kids Darija!
Btw, there is a very good website for those who don't speak darija maghribia: www.speakmoroccan.com
|Total Comments:44 Showing: 1-44|
Dialogues allows Moroccans and friends of Morocco to express their
views on any current issue or situation that could spark a discussion among
Wafiners. People from all walks of life are encouraged to submit their
views. All submissions must be concise, addressed to a broad audience, and
written in good, idiomatic English. Submit all articles to firstname.lastname@example.org.
Advertise on Wafin.com
Spread the Word
© Copyright 1999-2014, Wafin.com; All rights reserved.
Wafin.com is a subsidiary of the Gourad Group LLC.(www.gourad.com)